Question:
I guess I should be proud that my body has this one down so good, Lee,
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a friend who joined WW because she just can’t lose weight. Every week she was coming to the scales and not losing an ounce. She kept telling her leader she had been good, and finally she was persuaded to bring in her tracker. Turns out she eats about 10 points a day, if that. This woman was in tears because she couldn’t lose a thing. Leader told her to eat more and the following week she lost two pounds! She still struggles as she finds eating a lot a difficult to do – the opposite of most of us – but she knows she has to eat all or nearly all her points if she is going to lose weight. Maybe someone here can tell you the technical jargon of why this is so. All I know is eat those points and lose the weight Hazell, thank you so much for your story! It clearly shows why it’s not sensible to eat too little. You mentioned about the "technical jargon". I’m not sure you really want it, but here goes anyway! 
Basically what happens is that if we eat too little over any length of time our brains register it as a famine. To survive a famine, the human body has been beautifully designed to conserve energy (energy = calories), particularly the emergency energy store: your fat. So the following things happen: 1. Your metabolism drops significantly, reducing the amount of calories you need. For instance, the gut slows down, leading to constipation. 2. You feel tired and lethargic and start to automatically reduce energy expenditure – not just conscious energy expenditure, but things like reducing figgetting and the amount of movement in your sleep. 3. You start to automatically obsess over food and hunger increases – it’s the brain’s way of "motivating" us to find food. 4. In order to find the energy it needs, the body breaks down sources of energy that it can spare for the current "emergency": your muscles (Note: not your fat in this situation!). This includes all muscles, not just skeletal. Remember that the heart is a muscle. 5. Since muscle burns off energy as you move around, the less muscle you have, the less energy is burned off. 6. The less muscle you have, the weaker you feel and the less likely you are to move around. If the "famine" lasts too long, all the above continue except your body eventually turns the hunger off, although the obsession over food continues. So, in short, you burn off fewer and fewer calories, your bones and muscles become weaker and weaker and you think about food *more* (leading to the risk that you’ll crack and eat everything in sight). To effectively lose weight, you need to reduce your calories just enough, and increase your activity just enough so that the body doesn’t react as if its in a famine, but you are burning off slightly more calories than you take in. About 1-2 lbs a week should be about right – the WWs points system is designed to achieve that for most people. — Anna (in UK) Start Weight: 174 lbs Goal Weight: 146 lbs Current Weight: 165.5 lbs
Response:
If I’m correct I believe Lee has lost around 90ish pounds following the WW plan. She may not lose large amounts every week, but she is losing and that’s what’s important. Doesn’t appear you’ve lost much following WW or any other diet so where do you get off telling her she’s on the wrong diet? It appears that you are on the wrong diet. — Brenda 209/195/155
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am one of these people, before ww I couldn’t lose on 400 calories a day, now don’t get me wrong, no anorexia here, just wrote it down and that is what I hate many days and wasn’t hungry, then I could go 2 weeks and way over eat on calories but the volume would be about the same, I do struggle with this but have learned that if I do not eat every point I will go into starvation mode. $$ And you’ve had tests done to prove this I’m sure. If you stay out of starvation mode how much do you lose? Now that I have been doing WW for 2 years I find that eating is much easier, I have a several meal schedule to keep blood sugar in order and the small volume in points and quantity at least most weeks keep me from gaining and on occasion I even lose. $$ On occasion you lose? Why don’t you see a weight specialist? If you BURN more calories than you take in you will lose weight. Understand, I consider a week where there is no gain a complete and total victory, Lee $$ Then you’re not following the right diet. You’re still consuming too many calories each day. — Wysong Age 60. Height 5′6" 171/ 166 / 140 lb
Response:
I am one of these people, before ww I couldn’t lose on 400 calories a day, now don’t get me wrong, no anorexia here, just wrote it down and that is what I hate many days and wasn’t hungry, then I could go 2 weeks and way over eat on calories but the volume would be about the same, I do struggle with this but have learned that if I do not eat every point I will go into starvation mode.
$$ And you’ve had tests done to prove this I’m sure. If you stay out of starvation mode how much do you lose? Now that I have been doing WW for 2 years I find that eating is much easier, I have a several meal schedule to keep blood sugar in order and the small volume in points and quantity at least most weeks keep me from gaining and on occasion I even lose.
$$ On occasion you lose? Why don’t you see a weight specialist? If you BURN more calories than you take in you will lose weight. Understand, I consider a week where there is no gain a complete and total victory, Lee
$$ Then you’re not following the right diet. You’re still consuming too many calories each day. — Wysong Age 60. Height 5′6" 171/ 166 / 140 lb
Response:
I agree with all of this except the amount of water, after doing some reading I found that drinking half my weight in ounces each day is what was right for me, for example, if I weigh 100 pounds I drink 50 oz of water, this was a bunch when I weighed 230 but has gone down as I have lost. The less water I have to drink is a reward to me for losing, also I drink 16 ounces of water in my cherry juice concentrate every day, which is well worth the 2 points and 16 ounces of skim milk also each day. I just started this and it seems to be helping curb the hunger, Lee, rambling again
Of course that’s true – the recommended 2 litres per day is for a "normal" weight person. If you’re overweight your body’s bound to need much more. — Anna (in UK) Start Weight: 174 lbs Goal Weight: 146 lbs Current Weight: 165.5 lbs
Response:
when I first read your post I was trying to figure out who had upset you, I see now, please use your filter to remove anyone who is unpleasant for you, you are here for support and should not allow yourself to be upset by troll like behavior, fell better please, Lee
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First off it is possible to eat just 10 points a day, i have done it. It comes from eating mostly veggies and little else. Coffee, black , water and veggies, with some protein of some sort thrown in adds up to little points. So 10 points is possible without being hungry. Also you bit about not being able to not be hungry on 10 points is off also since I am not hungry when I eat low points. I am not saying I do this every day, I don’t. But I seldom meet my point amount, I usually seem to be under it by any where from 4 to 12 points. Idon’t want to eat junk to fill in the points, but I am not hungry either and have a hard time putting food in my mouth when I am not hungry. I didn’t gain my weight from eating wrong, I gained from quitting smoking(hand and mouth habit) and from moving from acrage to an apartment(less exercise). Not everyone who is over weight is there because of eating junk. Some of us just eat at the wrong times and don’t get enough exercise. I found that stopping eatting for 3-4 hours before I go to bed works with me. It takes out the munchies from being bored and I actually sleep which I have a hard time doing while digesting. I really REALLY wish you would stop making it sound like being overweight is do to eating like a pig and being lazy as this is NOT always the case. Stop putting lables on us and don’t generalize please, it does NOT help in supporting those of us who are trying to change how they live. Adele — 248/242/169 minigoal 238 2/13/04 I have a friend who joined WW because she just can’t lose weight. Every week she was coming to the scales and not losing an ounce. She kept telling her leader she had been good, and finally she was persuaded to bring in her tracker. Turns out she eats about 10 points a day, if that. This woman was in tears because she couldn’t lose a thing. Leader told her to eat more and the following week she lost two pounds! $$ If eating MORE caused weight loss we’d all be skeletons. When one leader told me to "eat more" I gained back 2 of the measly 5 lbs I had lost in the proceeding 6 months. No on loses weight by "eating more." You can be sure she wasn’t keeping a real journal. People lie. 10 pts a day? That’s barely 500/600 calories a day – anyone would lose on that unless they were bedridden and unable to move at all. Just to maintain life takes about 11 to 1200 calories a day. She didn’t eat more to lose the weight – she finally started to keep a REAL journal. She still struggles as she finds eating a lot a difficult to do – the opposite of most of us $$ Of this person wasn’t losing weight on 600 to 700 calories a day she is truly an anomaly! - but she knows she has to eat all or nearly all her points if she is going to lose weight. Maybe someone here can tell you the technical jargon of why this is so. All I know is eat those points and lose the weight $$ And what of those of us who ate the points and DID/DO NOT lose the weight? Look at those on this NG who don’t lose or even GAIN on the points. Read all the posts. I have to stick to the low end of my points and walk 1 to 2 miles a day to lose anything at all. At the high point treadmill. Another thing that I find hard to believe is any obese person being able to stick to 10 pts a day. Who could tolerate such hunger? If they didn’t suffer hunger they would not be obese and on WW. And lets forget the "starvation mode" BS. Your metab’ only slows so far until you must consume fat to survive. You can’t live on water and air in the absence of enough food. It that were true no one lost in the woods for a few weeks would be as skinny as they are when found. Those unfortunates in the concentration camps would not have looked like skeletons….. — Wysong Age 60. Height 5′6" 171/ 166 / 140 lb
Response:
I agree with all of this except the amount of water, after doing some reading I found that drinking half my weight in ounces each day is what was right for me, for example, if I weigh 100 pounds I drink 50 oz of water, this was a bunch when I weighed 230 but has gone down as I have lost. The less water I have to drink is a reward to me for losing, also I drink 16 ounces of water in my cherry juice concentrate every day, which is well worth the 2 points and 16 ounces of skim milk also each day. I just started this and it seems to be helping curb the hunger, Lee, rambling again
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey everyone.I hope the fight goes well for all.I am at an odd point in this diet.Today i woke up and i wasnt hungry.I proceeded to drink a couple glasses of water and around lunch time i had 7 points.I still an not hungry and i have like 21 points that are owed to me.I guess becaus i drink about 1 gallon of water a day,my stomach is full.Do i have to use these points or can i bank them?Just looking for some advice, i appreciate it A gallon of water, even a US gallon, is way too much. If you are drinking that much because you’re thirsty, I’d strongly recommend a trip to the doctors. If not, just be aware that too much water will flush out the water soluble vitamins and minerals in your system. A deficiency of B vitamins and zinc can cause lack of appetite and even anorexia. You should drink about 8 250ml glasses of water per day to be healthy. You should try to eat the points allocated to you – too few and your metabolism could crash and then you would get even fatter. — Anna (in UK) Start Weight: 174 lbs Goal Weight: 146 lbs Current Weight: 165.5 lbs
Response:
I tried a "shake" diet, where you only drink shakes, I didn’t lose on that one which was 500 calories a day, Lee
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 2. You feel tired and lethargic and start to automatically reduce energy expenditure – not just conscious energy expenditure, but things like reducing figgetting and the amount of movement in your sleep. ## You’re talking about starvation here, not a healthy calorie deficit. This start to kick in as soon as you go into calorific deficit. The lower the calories the worse it gets of course. There is some good stuff coming out about ‘refeeds’ or ‘cyclic dietting’ or ‘carb loading’. The Wendy Plan (a variation of WW) may be based on this. 3. You start to automatically obsess over food and hunger increases – it’s the brain’s way of "motivating" us to find food. ## This is why I don’t believe the woman was on 10 pts a day. Unless she laid in a bed and didn’t move at all she would have lost weight after a week or so It’s quite possible that she wasn’t on 10 pts a day. People are absolutely terrible at monitoring their food intake. I try to be very exact but I know for instance that I eat the occasional date that doesn’t find it’s way onto the journal. It seems almost as if people think that if they don’t journal it won’t come out on the scale. Weird psychological stuff going on. …. it takes about 1200 calories a day to maintain life. There are some good guides to BMR. http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html ## Sure they lose some muscle, but they also lose large amounts of FAT tissue. As you say starvation diets are great for losing fat. Unfortunately they also lose lots of muscle too. I think it’s universally accepted that using starvation to lose weight is not a good idea. To effectively lose weight, you need to reduce your calories just enough, and increase your activity just enough so that the body doesn’t react as if its in a famine, ## As anyone can see, this doesn’t work for everyone since so many fail to lose unless they drastically cut calories, or they get involved in some really strenuous activity lasting several hours a day. There are several studies that have looked at whether some people have a ’slow metabolism’. Basically if you place people under observation and record properly everything they eat you find that all those people who said that they couldn’t lose weight, did. See my comment above on counting calories Ray — 2002 1.8i eternal red
Response:
I am one of these people, before ww I couldn’t lose on 400 calories a day, now don’t get me wrong, no anorexia here, just wrote it down and that is what I hate many days and wasn’t hungry, then I could go 2 weeks and way over eat on calories but the volume would be about the same, I do struggle with this but have learned that if I do not eat every point I will go into starvation mode. Now that I have been doing WW for 2 years I find that eating is much easier, I have a several meal schedule to keep blood sugar in order and the small volume in points and quantity at least most weeks keep me from gaining and on occasion I even lose. Understand, I consider a week where there is no gain a complete and total victory, Lee
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a friend who joined WW because she just can’t lose weight. Every week she was coming to the scales and not losing an ounce. She kept telling her leader she had been good, and finally she was persuaded to bring in her tracker. Turns out she eats about 10 points a day, if that. This woman was in tears because she couldn’t lose a thing. Leader told her to eat more and the following week she lost two pounds! She still struggles as she finds eating a lot a difficult to do – the opposite of most of us – but she knows she has to eat all or nearly all her points if she is going to lose weight. Maybe someone here can tell you the technical jargon of why this is so. All I know is eat those points and lose the weight All the best Hazell Hey everyone.I hope the fight goes well for all.I am at an odd point in this diet.Today i woke up and i wasnt hungry.I proceeded to drink a couple glasses of water and around lunch time i had 7 points.I still an not hungry and i have like 21 points that are owed to me.I guess becaus i drink about 1 gallon of water a day,my stomach is full.Do i have to use these points or can i bank them?Just looking for some advice, i appreciate it
Response:
Never eat less than 20 and some feel you can bank only a few others say save them all, this is an area where you need to pick a plan and write down what happens to see what result your body gives you. For some this would do fine in assisting weight loss, if I do not eat every single point every day then I go into starvation mode and stall or even gain. One thing I have learned is to eat point dense food that is still healthy, for example, real nuts or real cheese, it is a healthy food and gives you nutrition that the ordinary foods may not. Avoid the temptation to eat a huge treat with those points, good luck and I am hoping to see what you decided and how it turned out as I read along, Lee
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey everyone.I hope the fight goes well for all.I am at an odd point in this diet.Today i woke up and i wasnt hungry.I proceeded to drink a couple glasses of water and around lunch time i had 7 points.I still an not hungry and i have like 21 points that are owed to me.I guess becaus i drink about 1 gallon of water a day,my stomach is full.Do i have to use these points or can i bank them?Just looking for some advice, i appreciate it
Response:
This will be my only reply to you in future : This is alt. SUPPORT.diet.weightwatchers. What part didn’t you get ? — Nathalie from Belgium 134.1/89.7/minigoal 88.7/ Goal 68 Kg 295.6/197.8/minigoal 195.6/Goal 150 pounds
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First off it is possible to eat just 10 points a day, i have done it. $ And unless you never moved off the sofa you had to have lost weight. It comes from eating mostly veggies and little else. Coffee, black , water and veggies, with some protein of some sort thrown in adds up to little points. So 10 points is possible without being hungry. Also you bit about not being able to not be hungry on 10 points is off also since I am not hungry when I eat low points. $ Good for you. Then stick with 600 to 700 calories a day and you will lose rapidly, especially if you exercise. :-) I get shaky, cold and headachy under 900 to 1000 calories a day. I would dump this weight in weeks if I could survive on such a low calorie/pt diet. I am not saying I do this every day, I don’t. But I seldom meet my point amount, I usually seem to be under it by any where from 4 to 12 points. Idon’t want to eat junk to fill in the points, but I am not hungry either and have a hard time putting food in my mouth when I am not hungry. $ Then HOW did you get overweight? I don’t eat either when I’m not hungry. However the 2 WW leaders in my old group couldn’t even agree on whether to eat then anyway, or not…. all I got from them were conflicting opinions. Then she assured me if I ate all my points I would start to lose weight – so I did. She told many of us that – none lost more weight and most of us gained back the small amount we did managed to lose, at max Pts. She would not supply us with the effective program from the 1960s that we requested. By then the group had shrunk considerably. I quit myself …. and switched to low-carb shortly afterward and dumped 46 Lbs in 5 months before hitting a permanent plateau. The cost $300+ for the 3 lbs lost at WW and about $4.00 for a low-carb book and dumped 46 lbs rapidly. I didn’t gain my weight from eating wrong, I gained from quitting smoking(hand and mouth habit) and from moving from acrage to an apartment(less exercise). Not everyone who is over weight is there because of eating junk. $ This is true. I developed a thyroid problem at the same time I was bedridden for 18 months. I gained 80 lbs in less than 2 years. :-( Finally the Dr ran tests to see why I was gaining so much so fast…. what a nightmare! Some of us just eat at the wrong times and don’t get enough exercise. I found that stopping eatting for 3-4 hours before I go to bed works with me. It takes out the munchies from being bored and I actually sleep which I have a hard time doing while digesting. I really REALLY wish you would stop making it sound like being overweight is do to eating like a pig and being lazy as this is NOT always the case. $ See above. I know it’s not always the case. Unfortunately just about every overweight person I ever knew admitted they ate too much and didn’t exercise enough. Stop putting lables on us and don’t generalize please, it does NOT help in supporting those of us who are trying to change how they live. Adele $ It’s like anything else. If you want it bad enough you will succeed. 
— Wysong Age 60. Height 5′6" 171/ 166 / 140 lb
Response:
## This is why I don’t believe the woman was on 10 pts a day. Unless she laid in a bed and didn’t move at all she would have lost weight after a week or so It’s quite possible that she wasn’t on 10 pts a day. People are absolutely terrible at monitoring their food intake.
# Exactly. That’s what I meant. That’s also why I write down every bite I take. I try to be very exact but I know for instance that I eat the occasional date that doesn’t find it’s way onto the journal. It seems almost as if people think that if they don’t journal it won’t come out on the scale. Weird psychological stuff going on.
# This is true. I saw this on both plans. On Low-carb you’ll have someone use a tsp of sugar thinking it wont count, then they’ll have a candy kisser a few days later – it counts at the end of a week. …. it takes about 1200 calories a day to maintain life. There are some good guides to BMR. http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html ## Sure they lose some muscle, but they also lose large amounts of FAT tissue. As you say starvation diets are great for losing fat. Unfortunately they also lose lots of muscle too. I think it’s universally accepted that using starvation to lose weight is not a good idea.
# I agree again. But a caloric restricted diet need NOT be a starvation diet. If all nutrients are supplied (minerals and vitamins) and the calories (carbs and fats) reduced to produce a loss of 1 to 2 lbs a week there should be no danger to the person. Older people, pregnant women and people with health problems need to check with their Dr in any case before dieting – or they should. But that’s just common sense. To effectively lose weight, you need to reduce your calories just enough, and increase your activity just enough so that the body doesn’t react as if its in a famine, ## As anyone can see, this doesn’t work for everyone since so many fail to lose unless they drastically cut calories, or they get involved in some really strenuous activity lasting several hours a day. There are several studies that have looked at whether some people have a ’slow metabolism’. Basically if you place people under observation and record properly everything they eat you find that all those people who said that they couldn’t lose weight, did. See my comment above on counting calories
# EXACTLY! And that is why I do not believe for a minute the lady was on 10 Pts a day (true starvation rations) and failed to lose anything. No matter how resistant she is to weight loss. She still must burn "fuel" simply to survive. I for one don’t think being someone’s "enabler" is doing them any good. Ray
– Wysong Age 60. Height 5′6" 171/ 166 / 140 lb
Response:
First off it is possible to eat just 10 points a day, i have done it.
$ And unless you never moved off the sofa you had to have lost weight. It comes from eating mostly veggies and little else. Coffee, black , water and veggies, with some protein of some sort thrown in adds up to little points. So 10 points is possible without being hungry. Also you bit about not being able to not be hungry on 10 points is off also since I am not hungry when I eat low points.
$ Good for you. Then stick with 600 to 700 calories a day and you will lose rapidly, especially if you exercise. :-) I get shaky, cold and headachy under 900 to 1000 calories a day. I would dump this weight in weeks if I could survive on such a low calorie/pt diet. I am not saying I do this every day, I don’t. But I seldom meet my point amount, I usually seem to be under it by any where from 4 to 12 points. Idon’t want to eat junk to fill in the points, but I am not hungry either and have a hard time putting food in my mouth when I am not hungry.
$ Then HOW did you get overweight? I don’t eat either when I’m not hungry. However the 2 WW leaders in my old group couldn’t even agree on whether to eat then anyway, or not…. all I got from them were conflicting opinions. Then she assured me if I ate all my points I would start to lose weight – so I did. She told many of us that – none lost more weight and most of us gained back the small amount we did managed to lose, at max Pts. She would not supply us with the effective program from the 1960s that we requested. By then the group had shrunk considerably. I quit myself …. and switched to low-carb shortly afterward and dumped 46 Lbs in 5 months before hitting a permanent plateau. The cost $300+ for the 3 lbs lost at WW and about $4.00 for a low-carb book and dumped 46 lbs rapidly. I didn’t gain my weight from eating wrong, I gained from quitting smoking(hand and mouth habit) and from moving from acrage to an apartment(less exercise). Not everyone who is over weight is there because of eating junk.
$ This is true. I developed a thyroid problem at the same time I was bedridden for 18 months. I gained 80 lbs in less than 2 years. :-( Finally the Dr ran tests to see why I was gaining so much so fast…. what a nightmare! Some of us just eat at the wrong times and don’t get enough exercise. I found that stopping eatting for 3-4 hours before I go to bed works with me. It takes out the munchies from being bored and I actually sleep which I have a hard time doing while digesting. I really REALLY wish you would stop making it sound like being overweight is do to eating like a pig and being lazy as this is NOT always the case.
$ See above. I know it’s not always the case. Unfortunately just about every overweight person I ever knew admitted they ate too much and didn’t exercise enough. Stop putting lables on us and don’t generalize please, it does NOT help in supporting those of us who are trying to change how they live. Adele
$ It’s like anything else. If you want it bad enough you will succeed. :-) — Wysong Age 60. Height 5′6" 171/ 166 / 140 lb
Response:
2. You feel tired and lethargic and start to automatically reduce energy expenditure – not just conscious energy expenditure, but things like reducing figgetting and the amount of movement in your sleep. ## You’re talking about starvation here, not a healthy calorie deficit.
This start to kick in as soon as you go into calorific deficit. The lower the calories the worse it gets of course. There is some good stuff coming out about ‘refeeds’ or ‘cyclic dietting’ or ‘carb loading’. The Wendy Plan (a variation of WW) may be based on this. 3. You start to automatically obsess over food and hunger increases – it’s the brain’s way of "motivating" us to find food. ## This is why I don’t believe the woman was on 10 pts a day. Unless she laid in a bed and didn’t move at all she would have lost weight after a week or so
It’s quite possible that she wasn’t on 10 pts a day. People are absolutely terrible at monitoring their food intake. I try to be very exact but I know for instance that I eat the occasional date that doesn’t find it’s way onto the journal. It seems almost as if people think that if they don’t journal it won’t come out on the scale. Weird psychological stuff going on. …. it takes about 1200 calories a day to maintain life.
There are some good guides to BMR. http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html ## Sure they lose some muscle, but they also lose large amounts of FAT tissue.
As you say starvation diets are great for losing fat. Unfortunately they also lose lots of muscle too. I think it’s universally accepted that using starvation to lose weight is not a good idea. To effectively lose weight, you need to reduce your calories just enough, and increase your activity just enough so that the body doesn’t react as if its in a famine, ## As anyone can see, this doesn’t work for everyone since so many fail to lose unless they drastically cut calories, or they get involved in some really strenuous activity lasting several hours a day.
There are several studies that have looked at whether some people have a ’slow metabolism’. Basically if you place people under observation and record properly everything they eat you find that all those people who said that they couldn’t lose weight, did. See my comment above on counting calories Ray — 2002 1.8i eternal red
Response:
First off it is possible to eat just 10 points a day, i have done it. It comes from eating mostly veggies and little else. Coffee, black , water and veggies, with some protein of some sort thrown in adds up to little points. So 10 points is possible without being hungry. Also you bit about not being able to not be hungry on 10 points is off also since I am not hungry when I eat low points. I am not saying I do this every day, I don’t. But I seldom meet my point amount, I usually seem to be under it by any where from 4 to 12 points. Idon’t want to eat junk to fill in the points, but I am not hungry either and have a hard time putting food in my mouth when I am not hungry. I didn’t gain my weight from eating wrong, I gained from quitting smoking(hand and mouth habit) and from moving from acrage to an apartment(less exercise). Not everyone who is over weight is there because of eating junk. Some of us just eat at the wrong times and don’t get enough exercise. I found that stopping eatting for 3-4 hours before I go to bed works with me. It takes out the munchies from being bored and I actually sleep which I have a hard time doing while digesting. I really REALLY wish you would stop making it sound like being overweight is do to eating like a pig and being lazy as this is NOT always the case. Stop putting lables on us and don’t generalize please, it does NOT help in supporting those of us who are trying to change how they live. Adele — 248/242/169 minigoal 238 2/13/04
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a friend who joined WW because she just can’t lose weight. Every week she was coming to the scales and not losing an ounce. She kept telling her leader she had been good, and finally she was persuaded to bring in her tracker. Turns out she eats about 10 points a day, if that. This woman was in tears because she couldn’t lose a thing. Leader told her to eat more and the following week she lost two pounds! $$ If eating MORE caused weight loss we’d all be skeletons. When one leader told me to "eat more" I gained back 2 of the measly 5 lbs I had lost in the proceeding 6 months. No on loses weight by "eating more." You can be sure she wasn’t keeping a real journal. People lie. 10 pts a day? That’s barely 500/600 calories a day – anyone would lose on that unless they were bedridden and unable to move at all. Just to maintain life takes about 11 to 1200 calories a day. She didn’t eat more to lose the weight – she finally started to keep a REAL journal. She still struggles as she finds eating a lot a difficult to do – the opposite of most of us $$ Of this person wasn’t losing weight on 600 to 700 calories a day she is truly an anomaly! - but she knows she has to eat all or nearly all her points if she is going to lose weight. Maybe someone here can tell you the technical jargon of why this is so. All I know is eat those points and lose the weight $$ And what of those of us who ate the points and DID/DO NOT lose the weight? Look at those on this NG who don’t lose or even GAIN on the points. Read all the posts. I have to stick to the low end of my points and walk 1 to 2 miles a day to lose anything at all. At the high point treadmill. Another thing that I find hard to believe is any obese person being able to stick to 10 pts a day. Who could tolerate such hunger? If they didn’t suffer hunger they would not be obese and on WW. And lets forget the "starvation mode" BS. Your metab’ only slows so far until you must consume fat to survive. You can’t live on water and air in the absence of enough food. It that were true no one lost in the woods for a few weeks would be as skinny as they are when found. Those unfortunates in the concentration camps would not have looked like skeletons….. — Wysong Age 60. Height 5′6" 171/ 166 / 140 lb
Response:
So the following things happen: 1. Your metabolism drops significantly, reducing the amount of calories you need. For instance, the gut slows down, leading to constipation.
## This can only last for a certain time – then you start burning FAT/protein to maintain life. No one can live on water and air. 2. You feel tired and lethargic and start to automatically reduce energy expenditure – not just conscious energy expenditure, but things like reducing figgetting and the amount of movement in your sleep.
## You’re talking about starvation here, not a healthy calorie deficit. 3. You start to automatically obsess over food and hunger increases – it’s the brain’s way of "motivating" us to find food.
## This is why I don’t believe the woman was on 10 pts a day. Unless she laid in a bed and didn’t move at all she would have lost weight after a week or so…. it takes about 1200 calories a day to maintain life. 4. In order to find the energy it needs, the body breaks down sources of energy that it can spare for the current "emergency": your muscles (Note: not your fat in this situation!). This includes all muscles, not just skeletal. Remember that the heart is a muscle.
## I think you need to do more research. If all that was burned was muscle, those lost on mountains and in the woods would be quivering blobs of fat and bone when rescued – they are not! Sure they lose some muscle, but they also lose large amounts of FAT tissue. 5. Since muscle burns off energy as you move around, the less muscle you have, the less energy is burned off. 6. The less muscle you have, the weaker you feel and the less likely you are to move around. If the "famine" lasts too long, all the above continue except your body eventually turns the hunger off, although the obsession over food continues. So, in short, you burn off fewer and fewer calories, your bones and muscles become weaker and weaker and you think about food *more* (leading to the risk that you’ll crack and eat everything in sight).
## Leaving you a quivering blob of FAT? Sorry that doesn’t happen. To effectively lose weight, you need to reduce your calories just enough, and increase your activity just enough so that the body doesn’t react as if its in a famine,
## As anyone can see, this doesn’t work for everyone since so many fail to lose unless they drastically cut calories, or they get involved in some really strenuous activity lasting several hours a day. but you are burning off slightly more calories than you take in. About 1-2 lbs a week should be about right – the WWs points system is designed to achieve that for most people.
## Yet most people here don’t seem to be losing that much (1 to 2 lbs) each week. Anna (in UK) Start Weight: 174 lbs Goal Weight: 146 lbs Current Weight: 165.5 lbs
– Wysong Age 60. Height 5′6" 171/ 166 / 140 lb
Response:
I have a friend who joined WW because she just can’t lose weight. Every week she was coming to the scales and not losing an ounce. She kept telling her leader she had been good, and finally she was persuaded to bring in her tracker. Turns out she eats about 10 points a day, if that. This woman was in tears because she couldn’t lose a thing. Leader told her to eat more and the following week she lost two pounds!
$$ If eating MORE caused weight loss we’d all be skeletons. When one leader told me to "eat more" I gained back 2 of the measly 5 lbs I had lost in the proceeding 6 months. No on loses weight by "eating more." You can be sure she wasn’t keeping a real journal. People lie. 10 pts a day? That’s barely 500/600 calories a day – anyone would lose on that unless they were bedridden and unable to move at all. Just to maintain life takes about 11 to 1200 calories a day. She didn’t eat more to lose the weight – she finally started to keep a REAL journal. She still struggles as she finds eating a lot a difficult to do – the opposite of most of us
$$ Of this person wasn’t losing weight on 600 to 700 calories a day she is truly an anomaly! - but she knows she has to eat all or nearly all her points if she is going to lose weight. Maybe someone here can tell you the technical jargon of why this is so. All I know is eat those points and lose the weight
$$ And what of those of us who ate the points and DID/DO NOT lose the weight? Look at those on this NG who don’t lose or even GAIN on the points. Read all the posts. I have to stick to the low end of my points and walk 1 to 2 miles a day to lose anything at all. At the high point Another thing that I find hard to believe is any obese person being able to stick to 10 pts a day. Who could tolerate such hunger? If they didn’t suffer hunger they would not be obese and on WW. And lets forget the "starvation mode" BS. Your metab’ only slows so far until you must consume fat to survive. You can’t live on water and air in the absence of enough food. It that were true no one lost in the woods for a few weeks would be as skinny as they are when found. Those unfortunates in the concentration camps would not have looked like skeletons….. — Wysong Age 60. Height 5′6" 171/ 166 / 140 lb
Response:
Ain’t no technical jargon. The body is like a furnace. It needs fuel to function. If you don’t feed it – the fire goes out and the metabolism slows. Maybe your friend would do better if she ate more frequently – but smaller meals – and she could also add some fat in the form of good healthy oil – that adds points in a hurry. Lynne Highest Weight – 308 WW Start Weight this time around Dec 29/04 – 222.4 Weight this week – 218 Goal – 150 (Subject to change) "Change doesn’t happen while you’re sitting around." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have a friend who joined WW because she just can’t lose weight. Every week she was coming to the scales and not losing an ounce. She kept telling her leader she had been good, and finally she was persuaded to bring in her tracker. Turns out she eats about 10 points a day, if that. This woman was in tears because she couldn’t lose a thing. Leader told her to eat more and the following week she lost two pounds! She still struggles as she finds eating a lot a difficult to do – the opposite of most of us – but she knows she has to eat all or nearly all her points if she is going to lose weight. Maybe someone here can tell you the technical jargon of why this is so. All I know is eat those points and lose the weight All the best Hazell Hey everyone.I hope the fight goes well for all.I am at an odd point in this diet.Today i woke up and i wasnt hungry.I proceeded to drink a couple glasses of water and around lunch time i had 7 points.I still an not hungry and i have like 21 points that are owed to me.I guess becaus i drink about 1 gallon of water a day,my stomach is full.Do i have to use these points or can i bank them?Just looking for some advice, i appreciate it
Response:
I have a friend who joined WW because she just can’t lose weight. Every week she was coming to the scales and not losing an ounce. She kept telling her leader she had been good, and finally she was persuaded to bring in her tracker. Turns out she eats about 10 points a day, if that. This woman was in tears because she couldn’t lose a thing. Leader told her to eat more and the following week she lost two pounds! She still struggles as she finds eating a lot a difficult to do – the opposite of most of us – but she knows she has to eat all or nearly all her points if she is going to lose weight. Maybe someone here can tell you the technical jargon of why this is so. All I know is eat those points and lose the weight
Hazell, thank you so much for your story! It clearly shows why it’s not sensible to eat too little. You mentioned about the "technical jargon". I’m not sure you really want it, but here goes anyway! Basically what happens is that if we eat too little over any length of time our brains register it as a famine. To survive a famine, the human body has been beautifully designed to conserve energy (energy = calories), particularly the emergency energy store: your fat. So the following things happen: 1. Your metabolism drops significantly, reducing the amount of calories you need. For instance, the gut slows down, leading to constipation. 2. You feel tired and lethargic and start to automatically reduce energy expenditure – not just conscious energy expenditure, but things like reducing figgetting and the amount of movement in your sleep. 3. You start to automatically obsess over food and hunger increases – it’s the brain’s way of "motivating" us to find food. 4. In order to find the energy it needs, the body breaks down sources of energy that it can spare for the current "emergency": your muscles (Note: not your fat in this situation!). This includes all muscles, not just skeletal. Remember that the heart is a muscle. 5. Since muscle burns off energy as you move around, the less muscle you have, the less energy is burned off. 6. The less muscle you have, the weaker you feel and the less likely you are to move around. If the "famine" lasts too long, all the above continue except your body eventually turns the hunger off, although the obsession over food continues. So, in short, you burn off fewer and fewer calories, your bones and muscles become weaker and weaker and you think about food *more* (leading to the risk that you’ll crack and eat everything in sight). To effectively lose weight, you need to reduce your calories just enough, and increase your activity just enough so that the body doesn’t react as if its in a famine, but you are burning off slightly more calories than you take in. About 1-2 lbs a week should be about right – the WWs points system is designed to achieve that for most people. — Anna (in UK) Start Weight: 174 lbs Goal Weight: 146 lbs Current Weight: 165.5 lbs
Response:
I have a friend who joined WW because she just can’t lose weight. Every week she was coming to the scales and not losing an ounce. She kept telling her leader she had been good, and finally she was persuaded to bring in her tracker. Turns out she eats about 10 points a day, if that. This woman was in tears because she couldn’t lose a thing. Leader told her to eat more and the following week she lost two pounds! She still struggles as she finds eating a lot a difficult to do – the opposite of most of us – but she knows she has to eat all or nearly all her points if she is going to lose weight. Maybe someone here can tell you the technical jargon of why this is so. All I know is eat those points and lose the weight All the best Hazell
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey everyone.I hope the fight goes well for all.I am at an odd point in this diet.Today i woke up and i wasnt hungry.I proceeded to drink a couple glasses of water and around lunch time i had 7 points.I still an not hungry and i have like 21 points that are owed to me.I guess becaus i drink about 1 gallon of water a day,my stomach is full.Do i have to use these points or can i bank them?Just looking for some advice, i appreciate it
Response:
A gallon of water, even a US gallon, is way too much. If you are drinking that much because you’re thirsty, I’d strongly recommend a trip to the doctors. ## Sounds like diabetes to me. A gallon of water????
Or kidney disease Or a pituitary problem Or anxiety-related compulsive behaviour Or anorexia/bulimia Or dry mouth/sinusitis Or the side-effects of medication …Or hyperbole But we’re not doctors so I don’t think we should be "diagnosing" people we’ve never met from one throw-away comment in a NG post! You should try to eat the points allocated to you – too few and your metabolism could crash and then you would get even fatter. ## Eating when NOT hungry is not a great idea. One size does not fit all. That’s how many of us ended up overweight in the first place.
Eating when not hungry if you are not hungry for medical reasons, not hungry for psychological reasons or in denial about being hungry, is not a good idea. Personally, I eat when I’m hungry. My problem is, I’m always hungry. — Anna (in UK) Start Weight: 174 lbs Goal Weight: 146 lbs Current Weight: 165.5 lbs
Response:
Hey everyone.I hope the fight goes well for all.I am at an odd point in this diet.Today i woke up and i wasnt hungry.I proceeded to drink a couple glasses of water and around lunch time i had 7 points.I still an not hungry and i have like 21 points that are owed to me.I guess becaus i drink about 1 gallon of water a day,my stomach is full.Do i have to use these points or can i bank them?Just looking for some advice, i appreciate it
A gallon of water, even a US gallon, is way too much. If you are drinking that much because you’re thirsty, I’d strongly recommend a trip to the doctors. If not, just be aware that too much water will flush out the water soluble vitamins and minerals in your system. A deficiency of B vitamins and zinc can cause lack of appetite and even anorexia. You should drink about 8 250ml glasses of water per day to be healthy. You should try to eat the points allocated to you – too few and your metabolism could crash and then you would get even fatter. — Anna (in UK) Start Weight: 174 lbs Goal Weight: 146 lbs Current Weight: 165.5 lbs
Response:
I know I have drank close to that amount many times. Having bad allergies and taking antihistimines causes dry mouth like you wouldn’t believe. This also causes untold trips to the bathroom all night long. Seldom does a night go by in which I visit it only twice. Oh well, just have to wait 6 more years then I am out of this environment and back in a healthier one. Nice to know we already have the land and are paying it off before we retire. Adele — 248/242/169 minigoal 238 2/13/04
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey everyone.I hope the fight goes well for all.I am at an odd point in this diet.Today i woke up and i wasnt hungry.I proceeded to drink a couple glasses of water and around lunch time i had 7 points.I still an not hungry and i have like 21 points that are owed to me.I guess becaus i drink about 1 gallon of water a day,my stomach is full.Do i have to use these points or can i bank them?Just looking for some advice, i appreciate it
Response:
Hey everyone.I hope the fight goes well for all.I am at an odd point in this diet.Today i woke up and i wasnt hungry.I proceeded to drink a couple glasses of water and around lunch time i had 7 points.I still an not hungry and i have like 21 points that are owed to me.I guess becaus i drink about 1 gallon of water a day,my stomach is full.Do i have to use these points or can i bank them?Just looking for some advice, i appreciate it A gallon of water, even a US gallon, is way too much. If you are drinking that much because you’re thirsty, I’d strongly recommend a trip to the doctors.
## Sounds like diabetes to me. A gallon of water???? If not, just be aware that too much water will flush out the water soluble vitamins and minerals in your system. A deficiency of B vitamins and zinc can cause lack of appetite and even anorexia. You should drink about 8 250ml glasses of water per day to be healthy.
## Keeping in mind that many healthy people drink less and others drink more. You should try to eat the points allocated to you – too few and your metabolism could crash and then you would get even fatter.
## Eating when NOT hungry is not a great idea. One size does not fit all. That’s how many of us ended up overweight in the first place. — Wysong Age 60. Height 5′6" 171/ 167 / 140 lb
Response:
Hey everyone.I hope the fight goes well for all.I am at an odd point in this diet.Today i woke up and i wasnt hungry.I proceeded to drink a couple glasses of water and around lunch time i had 7 points.I still an not hungry and i have like 21 points that are owed to me.I guess becaus i drink about 1 gallon of water a day,my stomach is full.Do i have to use these points or can i bank them?Just looking for some advice, i appreciate it
Response:
The WW guidelines say that you must eat your target number of points each day. You really need to eat something for breakfast each day to get your metabolism going for the day. I know it hard if you are not hungry but this is one meal you should not skip.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey everyone.I hope the fight goes well for all.I am at an odd point in this diet.Today i woke up and i wasnt hungry.I proceeded to drink a couple glasses of water and around lunch time i had 7 points.I still an not hungry and i have like 21 points that are owed to me.I guess becaus i drink about 1 gallon of water a day,my stomach is full.Do i have to use these points or can i bank them?Just looking for some advice, i appreciate it
Response:
Eat some cheese with your pasta – I know it adds fat but a little won’t make a huge difference, and it counts toward your dairy intake. Other people have made good suggestions too. *NOTE that most people (me included) are absolutely useless at recording what they eat. It’s not deliberate, but there are huge psychological pressures not to record stuff. For instance if you are trying to eat healthily, and you have a macdonalds, you may feel guilty enough to ‘forget’ to write it down. Even though it doesn’t appear on your journal it will still appear on your hips. Ray — 2002 1.8i eternal red